Hello everyone. This is the first time I’ve been inspired to post on t4t (or TMCyouth for that matter).

Growing up, I struggled very much with this issue. Most of the challenge actually came from trying to ignore it, and it wasn’t until I was in my third year of college that I actually spent the requisite time in quiet contemplation on this issue, listening only to the angels of God, that I was able to come to peace on this issue.

The following are my personal reflections on the issue, and not instructions. I agree with Elizabeth and everyone who said that this is a private, personal issue between individuals and God. I am posting it here only because it has been noted that there have been no gay people in happy, loving, and spiritually healthy relationships posting in this forum, and I think that we need to be more visible so that people like Light do not think that they are alone, and are not afraid of what conclusions they may reach through careful practice and study of Christian Science.

As Rita pointed out, however, Mrs. Eddy states that students “Assembling themselves together, and listening to each other amicably, or contentiously, is no aid to students in acquiring solid Christian Science. Experience and, above all, obedience, are the aids and tests of growth and understanding in this direction.” So I encourage you to “enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret”(no pun intended-just referring to what Jesus said about prayer in Matthew 6:6) and find the Truth.

For me, the most beneficial place for prayer is outside, away from people, and this particularly great healing happened during a week-long backpacking trip where I could keep mostly to myself in quite prayer. That is where these revelations came from.

About sex (the act):

Mrs. Eddy is very clear that the act of sex should (in the most spiritually inclined person) be for the sole purpose of propagation, and only within the moral confines of marriage. Lust and sexual desire are, spiritually speaking, on the same plane. It does not matter if the desire is directed toward a man or a woman. It is material, and therefore not spiritual. It is no more spiritual desiring to have sex with a person of the opposite sex than desiring to have sex with a person of the same sex.

That being said, we are all on our journey to God. Each person here is somewhere unique along this path, facing their own issues. The seeming ‘need’ for sex in our lives is one of the material illusions we must break in order to fully find Truth. (It should be noted here that anyone who is physically on this earth right now has not fully found Truth) Along this path, we will eventually give up the ‘need’ for water, food, air, etc., “for God is infinite, all-power, all Life, Truth, Love, over all, and All.” (S&H 17:14)

In the end, I realized that wanting to change my sexual desires was clearly not the route to take (since heterosexual sexual desires are no more spiritual than homosexual ones), and would not result in any healing. We are taught that we are not at war with the body, but instead, we must work through our challenges with the goal of reaching the higher Principal.
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About sex (the gender):

We learn from early on in CS to call God the “Father-Mother.” We know that “God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”(Genesis 1:27)
I remember as a kid just learning this stuff because that’s what we’re told. But now I really thought about it. What does Mrs. Eddy mean by using “Father-Mother”? If God really is “Father-Mother,” and we are created “in his own image. . . male and female,” doesn’t that therefore imply that we (as AmyRio earlier also stated) are, in Truth, complete spiritual beings. We are totally devoid of whatever sort of sex our physicality indicates (we don’t have bodies in Spirit, so how can you tell a man from a woman).
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About Marriage:

This should really say “about marriage, life partners, etc.” because of the way the word is being ripped apart lately. Call it what you will, having a union between two mutually loving individuals, who, as Rita also points out, through their relationship, are “lifted higher” is something that I deserve, that I now actually have.
Marriage is a human institution, and like many, many things, there is none of it in Atonement. Just as there is no reunification of loved ones. Our only true Life partner is God.
And so we marry people, or have partners, who we share our lives with here. They are our companion along this journey. Our bond with them is not eternal in the most obvious sense (however, as children of God we are all united spiritually, but in a much different sense than marriage).
Anyone who has truly mastered the feeling of loneliness and does not desire a spouse has accomplished a great thing, but again, if they are still physically in existence, they are probably working on other areas of their understanding.
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culmination
So what did I learn on this trip? What practical knowledge comes from these thoughts?

First of all, I learned that in order to achieve any spiritual progress at all, I have to identify where I am. Merely ignoring or denying parts of my current experience that seem nonspiritual will not bring me any closer to God. We all have a lot of work to do to reach Atonement, there is no shame to be had from not being completely severed from the material existence. To get anywhere, I must start where I am.

For years I was trying to ‘pray the gay away’ and make myself like the opposite sex, but that only seemed to do more harm than good, and actually became near-catastrophic at one point.

Then, because I realized that turning my attractions from one sex to another was not any spiritual growth, I instead decided to start listening to who I am and what God was telling me. What was spiritual growth was loving myself, Finding peace with where I am right now. This realization not only stilled my mind about my sexuality, but actually led me to become quite aware of other parts of me, and (unrelated to sexuality) I have found a career, great friends, and wonderful experiences which I love and would never have found without this peace of mind.

The most important thing is that I found someone with whom I can have the kind of loving, mutually beneficial relationship everyone has been referring to in their posts, and yes, we are the same sex.

I have had some of the greatest healing experiences of my life since that moment.

Just a note about this forum
CS is an amazing thing. There have been many comments about the lack of any actual homosexuals commenting on this forum. This is because, even though some people have tried to moderate it and keep things relatively chill, there have been some ignorant statements and some which reveal what may be thinly-veiled homophobia or even hatred. I cannot speak for others, but this is exactly why I generally stay away from these forums. Just as CS can do a lot of good work, malpractice can be hugely damaging, and people have died directly from malpractice. I know some of you mean no harm, but your points and views could be made with much less judgmental and damaging statements. Thank you to those of you who respect others’ very, very personal and intimate relationship with God.

• This reply was modified 38 days ago by  trip.

Thanks trip for posting with such honesty. I think it’s really important for all us here to remember that there are real people behind the typing, living their lives as they see fit. We should be extra careful about how we share our ideas and feelings when talking about issues that are so personal. I hope you won’t feel the need to stay away from the forums, trip.

To join the chorus :-) (and what a harmonious chorus it is!)

Thank you for your honesty and courage in posting, Trip. I, too, hope to hear your voice more often!

And Daphiney, I look forward to hearing your thoughts as well!

Enjoy this wonderful evening, friends.

Hi Rita,

I completely agree with everything you put here. In the interest of keeping my post a readable length, I didn’t get into a lot of detail about some things, and maybe I should have. Again, I’m not really willing to say what is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ because of the statement Mrs. Eddy made about students “assembling themselves” etc. I was just sharing my individual healing experience.

The point you make much more clearly is what I was trying to say when I said that I have to start where I am. I was referring directly to the same statement you made. We can’t just instantly give up the material world. It’s something we have to work for, and my greatest realization during this process was that the is no shame in accepting where I am in my spiritual path.

What you say above is what I was trying to say by referring to the eventual process of giving up everything material as we shed our belief and dependence on this experience. (my reference to food, water, etc.) The point was-and a critical point for my healing-that sex-the physical act of having sex-is no more spiritual when it is done between two people of opposite sex than when it is done between two people of the same sex. Eventually-like food, water, air, etc.-it will have to move aside as our focus becomes solely, and infinitely, toward God.

Hi Amy, sex is certainly not a need as drastic as food and water. But most people — though not all — do have some kind of need for sex — with or without a partner. I think Mrs. Eddy was very clear that if two people are married, one of the partners should not arbitrarily cut off sexual activity. If you have no need for sex, then you may be further along than some people. But needing sex is not a sin. How we satisfy that need is where the possibility of sin comes in. Promiscuity, rape, pedophilia are sins. Being in a committed relationship that is a union of the affections that supports your spiritual growth is not a sin.

Hi Amy,

Your opinion is as good as any. I disagree with it, but you are being honest in declaring that it is your opinion. I know you are quoting from No 45:21, “Drifting into intellectual wrestlings, we should agree to disagree; and this harmony would anchor the Church in more spiritual latitudes, and so fulfil her destiny.”

Let me add another quote from Mrs. Eddy, Mis 224:11, “We should remember that the world is wide; that there are a thousand million different human wills, opinions, ambitions, tastes, and loves; that each person has a different history, constitution, culture, character, from all the rest; that human life is the work, the play, the ceaseless action and reaction upon each other of these different atoms. Then, we should go forth into life with the smallest expectations, but with the largest patience; with a keen relish for and appreciation of everything beautiful, great, and good, but with a temper so genial that the friction of the world shall not wear upon our sensibilities; with an equanimity so settled that no passing breath nor accidental disturbance shall agitate or ruffle it; with a charity broad enough to cover the whole world’s evil, and sweet enough to neutralize what is bitter in it, — determined not to be offended when no wrong is meant, nor even when it is, unless the offense be against God.”

Each person who has participated in this discussion has contributed his or her own perspective. These have often differed, but each one is well thought-out. I hope that collectively we have helped light answer the questions she is asking. I am grateful for having been able to contribute.

I think Trip makes a very valid point here about judgement from others. We have to be VERY very careful that self-righteousness or promoting a certain stereotypical human model of living doesn’t deprive others of the necessary livelihood of expression that people need to feel motivated and happy.

Within each person’s consciousness and relationship to God, there is a continual working-out, learning, figuring out and growing, and also eventually a solidifying understanding and purification. No one should deprive anyone else from their process of working out their relationship with God, as long as, most importantly someone obeys the laws of the land, the most important support that anyone can give to another is to express genuine thoughtfulness, kindness, and love. And let each person work out their own sense of understanding of God.

Life, though it may be marked by what sometimes seem like definitive trials and joys, actually progresses pretty fast. And all these things we are commenting on here, are just blips on the radar of the human experience. Most importantly, we are always working out our relationship with God. :-)

Hello quik! I justed wanted to share a few things about what you wrote above.
Let me begin by saying I do understand your frustration. But that being said , I also feel the Church is making progress in this area. But , we have a long road ahead of us. I also want to say I am so sorry that you have been made to feel less than whole. I always think of the scripture where The Christ says to the rabbis, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” I believe this is a scripture much of Christendom needs to contemplate daily.
I will say here that it all comes down to the most basic tenant of Christian Science, namely that we ALL are created in our Father-Mothers image. And God don’t make junk. So it matters not what others think.
Anger and resentment have no place in a Christian scientist. The only one who suffers from our anger and resentment , is ourselves… It’s wasted energy. I too have been upset by some of the things Gordon has written. I prayed about it and saw that anger is unreal. A manifestation of error , and forgiveness the only remedy. In the manual Mother says ;

” A CHRISTIAN SCIENTIST IS A HUMANITARIAN; HE IS BENEVOLENT , FORGIVING , LONG-SUFFERING , AND SEEKS TO OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD” (MANUAL 46:26)

I say all this because I feel your anger in this post and I know it’s no good for you. I for one love diversity and I think for the most part so does our Church. If the responses to this community on homsexuality are any kind of indicator the church is changing… Always remember you are God’s perfect idea just as you are. :-)